Thursday, January 4, 2007

Predestination...

So the elders and I decide to start this sermon series, "What is a Christian?" Sounds innocent enough. I don't want to just start blabbing ideas off the top of my head, so we're going to base our answers on the Bible, always a good idea. I pick the book of Ephesians, an epistle written to a new church.

Chapter one, we dive right in and I will attempt to explain the delicate balance between free-will and predesination. On one hand, I'm a Calvinist/TULIP guy all the way. On the other hand I do know we make choices everyday and God has given us a mind to use.

I'd appreciate any of your ideas on this topic, how you've wrestled with it over the years and creative ways you have used to attempt to explain it all.

3 comments:

Chris said...

Hey Evan this is Chris, Schaffer's brother-in-law from Texas. Good to see you have a Blog.

For so many years I felt that we had the freedom to chose and were predestined from an eternal perspective. But the more I read and study the Bible, my view has changed. Here are some key verses I have found that support this:
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, [...]" (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30, NASB)

"[...] but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; [...]" (1Cr. 2:7, NASB)

"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Act. 4:27-28, NASB)

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Eph. 2:4-9, NASB)

"[...] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, [...]" (2Ti. 1:9, NASB)

Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;

And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them. (Psa. 139:16, NASB)

"So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. [verse 17 omitted] So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." (Rom. 9:16-18, NASB)

Now, I want to throw this out. I get very frustrated with groups that use conversations or subjects like this to split a church or create divisiveness. I feel regardless on where one stands on subjects like this it all comes down to "Do you have a personal relationship with the Lord!". I love these types of discussions, but for whatever reasons these discussions with some (not here I am sure) get personal for whatever reason. Just look at the BGCT of SBT in Texas. Just stupid that these things get in the way of doing what God commands us to do!!!

Love the blog, keep it coming and I enjoy discussing subjects like this to get everyone's view!

God Bless,
Chris

Phil Law said...

If we have free will and the ability to choose A or B, then God is not in control of that outcome, and is therefore not all powerful, and is therefore not God.

There's tons of explicit scripture backing up predestination, and nothing but inference and intellectual constructs backing up free will.

Some people will say, "But how can God take pleasure in our obedience if we have no choice?"

Maybe its the same as me taking pleasure in the acceleration of a high-displacement V8 motor when I stomp on the gas peddle. The engine had no choice, but I still took satisfaction in its performance.

Evan Lauer said...

I'm liking this now. Thanks for all the great thoughts. Chris, thanks for all the scripture references. The text in Ephesians is especially clear. Phil, you are right. You really can't justify free-will from scripture. Predestination however, is found throughtout the Bible. I think the problem most people have with it is trusting that God knows what he's doing by pre-ordering life's events. We do make choices, they are just choices that God already knows about. I'm ok with that!