Women's roles in the church

On Sunday I preached the first half of a two week sermon series on women's roles in the church. I will post the sermon notes here and would love to hear your thoughts. My basic thesis for this series is that while it seems to be evident that God has relegated the roles of elder to men, there is room for gifted women to preach and teach in the church, under the authority and blessing of the men who are leaders in the church.

The Pastoral Epistles 1 Timothy 2:9-15
The role of women in the church (A two part series)

Intro… Who are these well know women Bible teachers?
Recent Beth Moore Conference…a great teacher who acknowledged that she was “under” the men there…
When we think of women teaching in the church, we need to remember that the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible are given to all Christians.
Does God only give the gifts of teaching and preaching to men? Obviously not, (Beth Moore etc.)
So the question is, how does a woman use those gifts in line with what the Bible teaches?
There are three classic “problem” passages on this topic, I Corinthians 11:3-12, I Corinthians 14:32-36 and I Timothy 2:8-11.

When reading these passages, it’s good to keep in mind:
The accounts of creation and the fall (Genesis 1-3) reveal a fundamental equality between men and women (as far as their standing before God and need for forgiveness.)
Women exercised significant ministry roles of teaching and leading with God’s blessing in both Old and New Testaments.
Though the role of women was historically limited, the progress of revelation indicates an ethic in progress leading to full freedom for women to exercise their giftedness in the local church.
Key New Testament passages restricting women’s roles were culturally and historically specific, not universal principles for all time and places.
Though women are free to use all of their giftedness in teaching and leading in the church, the role of elder is biblically relegated to men and women come under that leadership of the men in the church.

(Today we’ll look at 1 Timothy 2:9-15. Next wk. the 1 Cor. Passages.)
Text: 1 Timothy 2:9-15
As usual, my sermon notes will be available both on our weekly email and the church website.
I also encourage you to look at: (and I will be quoting from)
http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/pdf/special_sections/women_ministry/women_ministry_IBC.pdf

Isn’t it interesting that we tend to ignore or skip over the other verses and hone in on v. 12?
v. 8 What about men lifting up holy hands? (I talked about that last week, and still 99% of men in church today don’t do this!)
v. 9 What is the definition of a woman dressing modestly, in our culture or others, especially tribal cultures?
What if a woman comes to church with an “elaborate” hairstyle like braids? Who decides what an elaborate hairstyle is? Gold or pearl jewelry?
Who defines what “expensive clothes” are?

Why do we allow such “hideous” behavior from women in church today?
Because in our culture, these things do not speak of impropriety. Obviously in Ephesus they did. We allow the culture to impact our interpretation. We do so with the intent of understanding Paul’s true meaning.

In light of that, v. 9-10 don’t need to be that hard to understand or interpret.
It’s always a good idea for women to dress modestly and decently.
A woman’s beauty should come from within, good deeds, things that are “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”

But then it gets a little more tricky and specific, v. 11-12

When interpreting these passages, it is important that we follow settled hermeneutical principles:
We must always consider the context. (What was going on at the time that would affect the writing?)
We must look behind local situations to find universal, timeless principles.
(Lev. 19:27-28, “don’t trim the edges of your beards or sideburns…or get
tattoo’s”…not relevant, but the principle still applies, that is, don’t identify
yourself with the pagan culture.)
We must realize that Paul sometimes accommodated the culture he was trying to reach in order not to be a stumbling block to their salvation. For example, Paul instructed Timothy to be circumcised in I Corinthians 9:19-22. This was unnecessary but prudent to reach the people for Christ.
We must always interpret unclear passages in light of clear passages. (And interpret scripture in light of scripture.)

So, when we look at this passage in 1 Timothy, let’s consider the context. What was going on at the time that would cause Paul to write this?
Ephesus was the capital of the Roman province of Asia and was the greatest
commercial center in Western Asia Minor. In this rich, cosmopolitan city, Greek and Asian cultures
were inextricably mixed. Under the Roman emperors it became the local center for the imperial cult--but far more important to the life of the city was the temple of Artemis. It was the largest structure in the Hellenistic world and one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. This temple and its cult affected every aspect of the society and was the focus of fierce civic pride. For a whole month each year the city stopped work and devoted itself to the Artemis cult. (Acts 19:23-41)
The goddess herself was depicted with many breasts, a symbol of fertility. Her worship was overseen
by eunuch priests. Under them were male and female priests who were attended by thousands of
young women. The church Timothy was pastoring was in the shadow of this great temple and was
certainly affected by its cultic worship in which women and eunuchs played the major role.


Remember, back in chapter 1, vs. 3-4…
Over and over in the letter Paul exhorts Timothy to focus on sound doctrine and beware of false teaching. (1:19,20; 4:1-3, 11-16; 5:20; 6:3-5, 20,21)
Timothy’s major problem was unqualified teachers. If men were teaching in error, we can surely suspect that women reared in Artemis worship would also be causing problems. Their lack of scriptural education was making the problem worse.
In vs. 11 Paul wants these women to learn properly…and “unlearn” the corruption from the temple of Artemis.
“In quietness and full submission” is the sign of any good student.
Our Bible time at home…constantly helping them learn in quietness
“Not to teach” most likely refers to false teaching in the church but there is no indication that this is referring to a formal pulpit situation.
Some have taken this statement out of context and flatly denied women the freedom to teach men.
Such an interpretation forgets that there is a difference between teaching “over” a man and teaching “with, to, or under the authority” of a man, and that if women can never teach men than we have some major contradictions in the Scriptures (and in the home where wives teach, correct, and challenge their children and their husbands).
It would be ridiculous to say that Kelley has never taught me anything or pointed out something I needed to see. She is my “helpmate” right from Gen. 2:18
In the church at Corinth women both prayed and prophesied (proclaimed) the Word of God. (1 Cor. 11:5) It was not a question of whether they should be free to teach men, but how, and under what circumstances.
Remember, Christians in Ephesus met in small house churches and false
teaching spread easily in these settings.
It is also important to note that the verb tense in verse 12 is the present tense.
The phrase is better translated, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach...” They needed to learn before they could teach.

v. 12 “Not to have authority over a man”
The word Paul uses for authority in this verse is authentein. This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and is even uncommon in Greek literature.
Paul does not employ the usual Greek word for authority, “exousia”, which is common in the New Testament when referring to authority in the home and church. Instead he chooses a negative word meaning “to dictate or domineer.”
In light of the Greek words chosen, verse 12 is better interpreted, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach in a manner of domineering men”
“Paul does not mean absolute silence, but the kind of teaching in which a woman disregards male leadership which is evident for the home and church throughout Scripture.”

v. 13-15 Adam, Eve, salvation
God made Adam first, and like the women in Ephesus, Eve lacked instruction. They were both were deceived and sinned. God had told Adam first (Gen. 2:15-17), he knew better also.

“She heard what God told Adam concerning the forbidden tree secondhand, and that made her more easily deceived. The women at Ephesus were also lagging behind the men in education. They needed time to learn, and Paul commanded them to learn. Until they did, they also were easily deceived. Eve is an excellent illustration of the Ephesian women who took the initiative and asserted their independence with disastrous results.”

If you’ve spent any time studying the Bible you know that Paul is not talking about, salvation in the sense of sin, repentance, forgiveness, Christ’s death on the cross etc.
If he was, then what about women who are single, or married and don’t have kids?
Most likely means either: Saved through the birth of a child, Jesus. Or that a woman’s greatest achievement is found in her devotion to her divinely ordained role: to help her husband, to bear children, and to follow a faithful life, “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
Or, women will be “saved” from the ungodliness Paul is attempting to curb if they return to the “wholesome normalcy of a Christian marriage relationship, within which quietness and submission replace the premature grasp for a role of authority in the church.”
Even that one is questionable though, because not all women get married and can still live lives fully devoted to God.

Conclusion:
Now you know why this is called one of the “problem passages.”
It’s not easy to read, understand or interpret.
I’ll say more about this next week when I conclude this two week series, but I am not pretending to have all the answers here.
This comes from years of study on my part…
Seminary 1992… Book: ”Why not women?” and most recently the document from IBC, from conservative DTS…

A boys life

For all you parents out there, especially you guys with little ones, these are the events of life. Somehow, Elijah has managed to be the King of injuries out of the 5 kids in our house. Last Summer he ended up with 7 stitches in the chin. Two weeks ago he sliced open his thumb and almost required stitches and then a couple of days ago he flew off the front of a skateboard (with a little unwanted help from a brother) and popped his head open requiring 7 stitches.

The last photo is of Micah who insisted on wearing a band aid in the same place as Elijah, even though he had no injury.

The worst thing about getting stitches? Waiting 5 hours in the Emergency room!

(If you are really into gory details, you can click on the photo's for a close up of the cuts.)

Somewhat of a living legend

Okay, so if you are not impressed by the massively huge waves Laird gets towed into at Jaws, the nearly impossible to believe wave he got at Teahupo'o (http://www.kewego.co.uk/video/iLyROoaftL5Q.html) or his all around waterman skills and lifestyle, I'd like you to think about his endorsement of a very good and very affordable lines of clothes at Steve and Barry's.

I'd never even heard of the store until last Saturday morning. I was reading the business section of our paper and came across a great article in the Union Tribune (I'll post it at the end of this post.) I encourage you to read it. Way to go Laird for shunning the corporate monster of the surf world. I bought a shirt that is quality and looks great. The surf trunks from his line of clothing are easily as good as the ridiculously priced $50.00 ones at most surf shops.

Laird was very personable at the store signing. He was kind to each of my kids, patiently asking how to spell each of their names and after a handshake and learning that I had five kids, told me I was "the pro" when it came to parenting. Nice to meet a living legend who seems to be quite down to earth.

Maverick surfing icon Laird Hamilton shuns apparel big shots, teams up his clothing line with low-cost retailer Steve & Barry's
By Jennifer Davies
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
May 17, 2008
When renowned extreme surfer Laird Hamilton decided to do his own clothing line, he didn't sign up with an action sports apparel powerhouse such as Quiksilver, Volcom or Hurley. Instead Hamilton has decided to pair up with Steve & Barry's, a retailer that has made a name for itself by providing incredibly low-cost shoes and apparel. For a limited time, everything in the store costs less than $9, from jeans to T-shirts to sneakers to dresses as well as Hamilton's new Wonderwall collection of surf-inspired shorts and shirts.
It might seem an unlikely collaboration. The action sports industry usually focuses on what is “core” or has street credibility, and Steve & Barry's is hardly akin to a local surf shop. The chain started out selling college branded T-shirts at cut-rate prices in 1985 and now has 266 stores in 38 states, including two in San Diego County.
But Hamilton said the partnership meshes perfectly with his maverick philosophy – he never participated in surfing competitions because he thought it was impossible to judge the art of surfing – and his background. Hamilton, an icon in the surf business, is known for his death-defying rides of 70-foot waves, as well as for his high-profile marriage to Gabrielle Reece, a former pro volleyball player and model.
Coming from humble beginnings in Hawaii where his parents could only buy a couple of pairs of pants and shirts each school year, Hamilton said Steve & Barry's low-cost ethos also appealed to him. He sees the chain as a leader in teaching consumers about what clothes should cost, decrying $125 sneakers or $50 board shorts.
“A lot of things are just so falsely inflated,” Hamilton said. “They (retailers) are charging three, four, five times what it actually costs to make and who eats that? The customer.” For Steve & Barry's part, the company knew it wanted to be a part of the lucrative surf/skate market, which rakes in more than $11 billion a year in the United States alone according to BoardTrac, a market research firm.
Howard Schacter, Steve & Barry's chief partnership officer, said that when it was thinking of a face for a new action sports brand, Hamilton was the obvious choice because of his reputation and name recognition.
Key to the company's strategy is to work with celebrities such as Sarah Jessica Parker, Venus Williams and basketball star Stephon Marbury to appeal to important market segments as well as attract attention. As part of its cost-saving strategy, the company doesn't advertise and relies on free publicity.
“I'm not sure we'd be getting on Access Hollywood if Laird wasn't involved,” Schacter said of some of the publicity the line has garnered.
To promote the new line, Hamilton will be signing autographs at the Steve & Barry's in Horton Plaza starting at noon today.
Marie Case, managing director of BoardTrac, said Hamilton makes sense because he is so well-known in surfing circles and beyond.
“It's a good strategy by the company to bring in someone like him who has such broad appeal,” she said.
Still, it is unclear how Hamilton's reputation will translate into sales. Surfers and skaters who put a lot of stock in staying authentic might not be drawn to Steve & Barry's, which carries a smorgasbord of fashion niches from urban-inspired wear from Marbury's Starbury line to the more mature female fashions of Parker's Bitten brand.
Schacter said Steve & Barry's wants to appeal to everyone in the family, much like a department store. He said the Wonderwall line is not necessarily directed at only action sports enthusiasts, pointing to the strength of Hollister, a surf-inspired retailer based in Ohio that is scoffed at by many in the action sports business.
“It's more aspirational than anything else,” he said of Wonderwall's appeal.
Hamilton said the whole core issue is nonsense.
“The whole thing about being core or not being core is all about insecurity,” he said.
What will matter to customers of Wonderwall, the line he helped design, is the clothes themselves.
“The bottom line is you are talking about a good quality product, and that crosses all boundaries,” he said. At the Horton Plaza store on Thursday, most of those checking out the Wonderwall line hadn't heard of Hamilton before and said the price is what attracted them to the garments.
Perusing the Wonderwall line, Wayne Schwartz, 60, said he's a regular at Steve & Barry's.
“I take pride in telling all my friends who buy the expensive stuff how little I pay,” he said.
Schacter said the company is all about squeezing out any extra cost in the business, from having the clothes made in Chinese factories at off-peak times to having bare-bone offices to flying coach and staying at inexpensive hotels. All of those measures make it possible for Steve & Barry's to make a razor-thin profit.
Schacter said the company has been able to expand rapidly during an economic downturn because more people are looking for bargains.
“Affordable is cool right now,” he said.

Bus fun

Last Saturday I had the opportunity to help out
some friends with the new church plant in Allied Gardens. One of the fun things about having a bus like mine is that it can be an instant parade float. We've used it for years in the PB Christmas Parade and the OB Christmas Parade. Last Saturday we decorated the bus and drove it through the parade route while about 15 volunteers passed out flyers for the church. We also threw out 40 beach balls which was a hit for the kids along the parade route. Now we just need to pray for this new church plant starting in the Fall. In particular please pray for Joey White and John Worcester as the head up the launch effort.

The little ones

Micah has learned to pray by watching all of us. One of the best times of the day is our family prayer time after dinner. When it's his turn to pray, Micah loves to and we recognize his broken language and know he is praying for Mom, Zach and LilyAnna. Very cool and I know God hears his little prayers.

Good fun watching LilyAnna learn to walk. Once she lets go of the prop and tries it on her own, she will exhibit the classic "drunken Frankenstein" walk they all did in the early phases. I'll try to get that on video too.

Spidey tattoo

Most of you know I'm into Spiderman so I decided to go all out and get this tattoo. Pretty realistic looking huh?
Actually...I'm a huge Spiderman fan, but that is not my tattoo. However, that is a real tattoo on a guys chest and arms. Now that is dedication to the web slinger! You gotta give props to the tattoo artist, it really looks like the guys skin is tearing away to reveal a Spiderman costume beneath. I printed out a picture of this and will add it to my collection as one of the more interesting items.