This video says it all...
Saturday, July 19, 2008
Tuesday, July 1, 2008
Soaking in the Word
Last Sunday I preached on 1 Tim. 4:6-16. Basically, the passage gives the answer to the problem of those who have wondered away from the faith, stay immersed in the word of God!
What has been your experiences in trying to help others come back to the truth when they've wondered? I know it sounds good in theory (that we all just come back to the Bible when confused), but it isn't always that simple. Stubborn humans that we are, we don't always take the easiest path back to God.
The Message
You've been raised on the Message of the faith and have followed sound teaching. Now pass on this counsel to the Christians there, and you'll be a good servant of Jesus. Stay clear of silly stories that get dressed up as religion. Exercise daily in God—no spiritual flabbiness, please! Workouts in the gymnasium are useful, but a disciplined life in God is far more so, making you fit both today and forever. You can count on this. Take it to heart. This is why we've thrown ourselves into this venture so totally. We're banking on the living God, Savior of all men and women, especially believers.
Get the word out. Teach all these things. And don't let anyone put you down because you're young. Teach believers with your life: by word, by demeanor, by love, by faith, by integrity. Stay at your post reading Scripture, giving counsel, teaching. And that special gift of ministry you were given when the leaders of the church laid hands on you and prayed—keep that dusted off and in use.
Cultivate these things. Immerse yourself in them. The people will all see you mature right before their eyes! Keep a firm grasp on both your character and your teaching. Don't be diverted. Just keep at it. Both you and those who hear you will experience salvation.
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Men in leadership, part two.
This week's post is really just a follow-up from last weeks. I'll post my sermon notes here in case you'd like to comment on leadership in the church, how God has set it all up etc.
The Pastoral Epistles, 1 Timothy 3:8-16
Intro…Discussion in our home fellowship on the whole ordination, license, title deal with leaders in the church…
· Both last week and this week we are focusing on the men in the church. Good timing with Father’s Day…and remember, these are great qualities for all men to be striving for.
Text: 1 Timothy 3:8-16
Last week we looked at the qualifications for the elder, overseer, or bishops within the church. These are the men who provide the spiritual leadership in the church. The pastors are included in this group.
Today we continue on with qualifications for the deacons in the church.
· Deacon means “servant” or “minister”.
· Originally deacons were helpers of the elders. As a result, their qualifications were practically the same as the elders.
· This office of deacon originated in Jerusalem, (Acts 6:1-6, Phil. 1:1)
· “Deacon” is also used throughout the NT in an unofficial sense for anyone who serves.
Now that we’ve defined deacon and know where it originated we can look at the qualifications for the deacons. (and again, most of these are self-explanatory)
· Worth of respect
· Sincere
· Not indulging in much wine (doesn’t get drunk….”person” at Ty’s party last week with beer…”I guess I can’t be an elder….”)
· Not pursuing dishonest gain (a leader in the church for all the right reasons.)
· “Keep hold of the deep truths (mystery) of the faith with a clear conscience” Be able to speak Biblical truth in an increasingly “tolerant” world that is more concerned with being “PC” then it is speaking the truth in love. The secret of salvation through Jesus Christ, which is revealed by the Holy Spirit to all who will believe. Today the word mystery implies knowledge withheld; in the Bible it indicates truth revealed.
· V. 10 Able to be tested…Before men were accepted as deacons they had to prove themselves before the community. Then they could serve as deacons, "if there is nothing against them."
· And that’s the way elders and deacons are still chosen today, men who have proven themselves before the community of believers.
The first six had more to do with the individual, these next two have to do with his family.
· Having wives that are worthy of respect, not malicious talkers, but temperate and trustworthy. A deacon should be leading his family in a way that helps his wife be a woman of respect, trustworthy etc.
· Ideally if women had husbands they respected spiritually and/or fathers who set a great example for them, then they probably wouldn’t wrestle or struggle with the leadership of men in the church.
· I know that’s not always the case though, yet the leadership of men in the church is evident here in all of chapter 3.
· V. 12 (If married) A committed family man who manages his family and household well. It’s because it all starts in the home…
The reward for being a deacon?
· V. 13 “Gaining an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.”
· Basically that means “honored by God”. IOW, if God is pleased with your service as a deacon, then that’s all that matters.
· You’ll also gain respect from people in the church.
v. 14 Paul reminds Timothy that even though he can’t be there in person, this is how the people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, the church.
· Remember, “church” is “ekklesia” meaning, “called out ones”. We are called out of our former lifestyle into a life that honors God.
· Paul reminds us that it is the “church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”
· The truth that is revealed in God's Word. The meaning of this clause is well expressed by Lock: "Each local Church has it in its power to support and strengthen the truth by its witness to the faith and by the lives of its members."
(One of the jobs of the elders and deacons is to communicate…) The mystery of godliness. V. 16
· “The revealed secret of true religion, the mystery of Christianity, the Person of Christ."
· Let’s take a look at this statement: This is foundational, a credal statement: “He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by the angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, and was taken up in glory.”
· If you break this down it’s talking about: “Jesus, his deity justified, watched over by angels during his earthly ministry, he was preached after his death among the nations (literally “the gentiles”), not as a theory or a creed but as a person (“We preach Christ” 1 Cor. 1:23), the true preaching of Christ produces faith in him on the part of many hearers, Jesus ascended into heaven, the climax of his earthly ministry.
· The church and it’s leadership should be all about Jesus.
· Preaching Christ means preaching his life, death, resurrection, and ascension as the glorified Lord. GOSPEL
We’ve looked at the leadership structure of the church.
· God, Christ, Man, Woman
· Elder, Deacon, team leaders, ministry area leaders etc.
Conclusion: Reader article on arm wrestling champion who is not only super strong, but a godly man.
The Pastoral Epistles, 1 Timothy 3:8-16
Intro…Discussion in our home fellowship on the whole ordination, license, title deal with leaders in the church…
· Both last week and this week we are focusing on the men in the church. Good timing with Father’s Day…and remember, these are great qualities for all men to be striving for.
Text: 1 Timothy 3:8-16
Last week we looked at the qualifications for the elder, overseer, or bishops within the church. These are the men who provide the spiritual leadership in the church. The pastors are included in this group.
Today we continue on with qualifications for the deacons in the church.
· Deacon means “servant” or “minister”.
· Originally deacons were helpers of the elders. As a result, their qualifications were practically the same as the elders.
· This office of deacon originated in Jerusalem, (Acts 6:1-6, Phil. 1:1)
· “Deacon” is also used throughout the NT in an unofficial sense for anyone who serves.
Now that we’ve defined deacon and know where it originated we can look at the qualifications for the deacons. (and again, most of these are self-explanatory)
· Worth of respect
· Sincere
· Not indulging in much wine (doesn’t get drunk….”person” at Ty’s party last week with beer…”I guess I can’t be an elder….”)
· Not pursuing dishonest gain (a leader in the church for all the right reasons.)
· “Keep hold of the deep truths (mystery) of the faith with a clear conscience” Be able to speak Biblical truth in an increasingly “tolerant” world that is more concerned with being “PC” then it is speaking the truth in love. The secret of salvation through Jesus Christ, which is revealed by the Holy Spirit to all who will believe. Today the word mystery implies knowledge withheld; in the Bible it indicates truth revealed.
· V. 10 Able to be tested…Before men were accepted as deacons they had to prove themselves before the community. Then they could serve as deacons, "if there is nothing against them."
· And that’s the way elders and deacons are still chosen today, men who have proven themselves before the community of believers.
The first six had more to do with the individual, these next two have to do with his family.
· Having wives that are worthy of respect, not malicious talkers, but temperate and trustworthy. A deacon should be leading his family in a way that helps his wife be a woman of respect, trustworthy etc.
· Ideally if women had husbands they respected spiritually and/or fathers who set a great example for them, then they probably wouldn’t wrestle or struggle with the leadership of men in the church.
· I know that’s not always the case though, yet the leadership of men in the church is evident here in all of chapter 3.
· V. 12 (If married) A committed family man who manages his family and household well. It’s because it all starts in the home…
The reward for being a deacon?
· V. 13 “Gaining an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.”
· Basically that means “honored by God”. IOW, if God is pleased with your service as a deacon, then that’s all that matters.
· You’ll also gain respect from people in the church.
v. 14 Paul reminds Timothy that even though he can’t be there in person, this is how the people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, the church.
· Remember, “church” is “ekklesia” meaning, “called out ones”. We are called out of our former lifestyle into a life that honors God.
· Paul reminds us that it is the “church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”
· The truth that is revealed in God's Word. The meaning of this clause is well expressed by Lock: "Each local Church has it in its power to support and strengthen the truth by its witness to the faith and by the lives of its members."
(One of the jobs of the elders and deacons is to communicate…) The mystery of godliness. V. 16
· “The revealed secret of true religion, the mystery of Christianity, the Person of Christ."
· Let’s take a look at this statement: This is foundational, a credal statement: “He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by the angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, and was taken up in glory.”
· If you break this down it’s talking about: “Jesus, his deity justified, watched over by angels during his earthly ministry, he was preached after his death among the nations (literally “the gentiles”), not as a theory or a creed but as a person (“We preach Christ” 1 Cor. 1:23), the true preaching of Christ produces faith in him on the part of many hearers, Jesus ascended into heaven, the climax of his earthly ministry.
· The church and it’s leadership should be all about Jesus.
· Preaching Christ means preaching his life, death, resurrection, and ascension as the glorified Lord. GOSPEL
We’ve looked at the leadership structure of the church.
· God, Christ, Man, Woman
· Elder, Deacon, team leaders, ministry area leaders etc.
Conclusion: Reader article on arm wrestling champion who is not only super strong, but a godly man.
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Elders
Ahh, the lovable duffus, Homer Simpson. It's painfully funny to watch that show. I have to admit that "The Simpson's" does a good job at forcing us to take a look at how we live and act as Christians. However, as I focused on the qualifications of elders in the church, I used Homer as an example of what men should not be. For better or worse, he is committed to his wife and kids.
But when we look at the unattainable list in 1 Timothy 3:1-7, every man realizes the daunting task of trying to live up to the Biblical standard for our lives. I'd love to hear your take on this passage, especially you men and how you are doing in measuring up to the standards listed in 1 Timothy 3.
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
More on women's roles in the church
Here is part two of my sermon series on women and their roles in the church. I'd love to hear what you think.
The Pastoral Epistles 1 Timothy 2:9-15
The role of women in the church (A two part series, part two.)
Intro…Pendulum swing…finding the middle balance….respected scholarly research on both sides of the “women speaking in church” issue.
We had a lively discussion in our home fellowship last week on this topic…and that was in a small group!
Initially I was all excited to continue on with the thought process/thesis from last week which was: “Women should be allowed to preach and teach in the church, under the blessing, guidance and authority of the men elders/pastor in the church.”
This week my thesis is: “Scripture seems to indicate that Paul is forbidding women from filling the office or role of pastor or teacher in the church/public worship gatherings. Paul also forbids women from exercising any type of authority over men in the church assembly, since God has called men as elders in the church.
I did a lot of reading again this week on this subject….and there is respected biblical research on both sides of this issue.
I think both arguments are valid. I want to do my best to present both sides well, so you can decide.
Also, please check these out for further reference:
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2634597/k.C59E/DW252.htm
http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/pdf/special_sections/women_ministry/women_ministry_IBC.pdf
Text: I Corinthians 11:3-12, I Corinthians 14:32-36
Some important points for today’s thesis:
There is order in God’s creation that still applies today, (I Co. 11:3) The head of every man is Christ, the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Cor. 11:8) Woman came from man and was created for her.
Yet we need each other, v. 11-12.
In reading a passage like 1 Cor. 11:3-12, it seems to say that women are a disgrace if they come to church without a head covering and they might as well be bald or go home and shave their heads!
So either we at Coastlands are in direct violation of scripture (in many ways, men praying or prophesying with a hat on?...v. 14 Long hair a disgrace to men? ) or we have recognized what that what those things meant in first century Corinth, they do not mean today in San Diego, Ca.
What is Paul getting at here? Let’s look at the original audience he was writing to.
Pagan and Jewish women who became Christians were given a place of honor and dignity, unprecedented in their former lives.
Jesus and Paul liberated women. They had women friends. Women served in the church and worshiped alongside men.
In Judaism, women were segregated in the synagogue and resigned to the women’s court in the Temple. They couldn’t even learn the Torah. The ritual for entry into Judaism was circumcision.
Along comes Christianity with a radical social statement which was that the ritual for entrance into Christianity is baptism, for both men and women!
Yet in today’s passage it seems like Paul is taking a step backwards.
In chapter 11-14 Paul discusses public worship, (for both men and women) and what you should and shouldn’t do.
The theme here is ORDER. Orderliness in worship, teaching these new Christians how to behave properly in worship.
1 Cor. 14:26- 33 (In regards to public worship) Everything that happens needs to be done for the strengthening of the church and done in order, ”For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.” 1 Cor. 14:33 & 40
Paul first speaks to the women who were most likely taking their freedom to extremes, throwing off the customary veil or head covering which represented propriety, modesty and graciousness.
So how does that apply to today, what is the timeless principle?
We all need to be orderly in the worship service. A key way a Christian women today “cover their heads” is when they behave appropriately with modesty, graciousness and (if married) marital fidelity.
Take a look again at verse 5. Paul is talking about women praying and prophesying in public worship. They just need to make sure they do it in the proper way, that is recognizing the order of creation and the male leadership God set over the church, as we saw in verse 3.
This is a “problem passage” because it seems to contradict what Paul says later in 14:34-36
Seems pretty clear, huh? Coincides with 1 Tim. 2:11-12, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
So, in today’s reading of these passages one can easily assume that Paul is saying the women should not be in a preaching or teaching role when there are men in the audience or congregation.
I think it’s ridiculous to say that women can never say a thing in church. (Remember 1 Cor. 11:5)
Paul is still reprimanding the Corinthian church because their services were chaotic and disorderly. They were putting too much emphasis on tongues, which was getting out of control.
Apparently some women were getting a little crazy with their new found freedom in Christ.
Paul is calling women to reverence, graciousness, and an attitude which does not call attention to ones self.
Here is some important things to remember on this topic:
God created both man and woman in His image. He offers the same Holy Spirit to both men and women at salvation. The same spiritual gifts are available to both men and women for service.
Jesus was completely radical in how he elevated women in his day. He ignored cultural barriers and invited women to be part of his ministry. Throughout the Bible we found God using women as leaders, prophets and teachers to further his kingdom.
He did, however, choose only men to be his disciples/apostles.
If you search both the Old and New Testaments for every reference to any kind of speaking ministry or leadership position carried out by women, you will come up with nearly 100 references.
“This is all the more remarkable in view of the fact that there are but two or three references which seem to be against women’s audible ministry. Yet these few references have been made the basis for muzzling women in spite of the fact that the main thrust of Scripture is against such silencing.”
“We need to acknowledge once again the difficulties associated with any scriptural study of the role of women in the New Testament church. It is a complex subject with great scholarship and godliness on both sides of the issue, and all who undertake to draw conclusions and set policy with regard to it must, in our view, do so with humility and openness to continued learning. This indeed is our commitment—never to conclude our perusal of God’s word on this subject as if we have determined God’s mind on the matter definitively for all times and peoples. Rather, we will continue to study God’s word and seek to be led by His Spirit in this and all other matters, praying always for the courage and integrity to implement whatever He shows us through that process.”
Conclusion:
I’ve presented two sides to the discussion in the last two Sunday’s, so you have to factor in what I said last week with today.
What I’m asking you to do (as you should do with every sermon you hear) is to search the scriptures, commentaries, books written etc. and see what God is telling you.
I personally am leaning towards women using their full giftedness in the church, under the blessing, guidance and authority of the men elders.
The Pastoral Epistles 1 Timothy 2:9-15
The role of women in the church (A two part series, part two.)
Intro…Pendulum swing…finding the middle balance….respected scholarly research on both sides of the “women speaking in church” issue.
We had a lively discussion in our home fellowship last week on this topic…and that was in a small group!
Initially I was all excited to continue on with the thought process/thesis from last week which was: “Women should be allowed to preach and teach in the church, under the blessing, guidance and authority of the men elders/pastor in the church.”
This week my thesis is: “Scripture seems to indicate that Paul is forbidding women from filling the office or role of pastor or teacher in the church/public worship gatherings. Paul also forbids women from exercising any type of authority over men in the church assembly, since God has called men as elders in the church.
I did a lot of reading again this week on this subject….and there is respected biblical research on both sides of this issue.
I think both arguments are valid. I want to do my best to present both sides well, so you can decide.
Also, please check these out for further reference:
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2634597/k.C59E/DW252.htm
http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/pdf/special_sections/women_ministry/women_ministry_IBC.pdf
Text: I Corinthians 11:3-12, I Corinthians 14:32-36
Some important points for today’s thesis:
There is order in God’s creation that still applies today, (I Co. 11:3) The head of every man is Christ, the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Cor. 11:8) Woman came from man and was created for her.
Yet we need each other, v. 11-12.
In reading a passage like 1 Cor. 11:3-12, it seems to say that women are a disgrace if they come to church without a head covering and they might as well be bald or go home and shave their heads!
So either we at Coastlands are in direct violation of scripture (in many ways, men praying or prophesying with a hat on?...v. 14 Long hair a disgrace to men? ) or we have recognized what that what those things meant in first century Corinth, they do not mean today in San Diego, Ca.
What is Paul getting at here? Let’s look at the original audience he was writing to.
Pagan and Jewish women who became Christians were given a place of honor and dignity, unprecedented in their former lives.
Jesus and Paul liberated women. They had women friends. Women served in the church and worshiped alongside men.
In Judaism, women were segregated in the synagogue and resigned to the women’s court in the Temple. They couldn’t even learn the Torah. The ritual for entry into Judaism was circumcision.
Along comes Christianity with a radical social statement which was that the ritual for entrance into Christianity is baptism, for both men and women!
Yet in today’s passage it seems like Paul is taking a step backwards.
In chapter 11-14 Paul discusses public worship, (for both men and women) and what you should and shouldn’t do.
The theme here is ORDER. Orderliness in worship, teaching these new Christians how to behave properly in worship.
1 Cor. 14:26- 33 (In regards to public worship) Everything that happens needs to be done for the strengthening of the church and done in order, ”For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.” 1 Cor. 14:33 & 40
Paul first speaks to the women who were most likely taking their freedom to extremes, throwing off the customary veil or head covering which represented propriety, modesty and graciousness.
So how does that apply to today, what is the timeless principle?
We all need to be orderly in the worship service. A key way a Christian women today “cover their heads” is when they behave appropriately with modesty, graciousness and (if married) marital fidelity.
Take a look again at verse 5. Paul is talking about women praying and prophesying in public worship. They just need to make sure they do it in the proper way, that is recognizing the order of creation and the male leadership God set over the church, as we saw in verse 3.
This is a “problem passage” because it seems to contradict what Paul says later in 14:34-36
Seems pretty clear, huh? Coincides with 1 Tim. 2:11-12, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”
So, in today’s reading of these passages one can easily assume that Paul is saying the women should not be in a preaching or teaching role when there are men in the audience or congregation.
I think it’s ridiculous to say that women can never say a thing in church. (Remember 1 Cor. 11:5)
Paul is still reprimanding the Corinthian church because their services were chaotic and disorderly. They were putting too much emphasis on tongues, which was getting out of control.
Apparently some women were getting a little crazy with their new found freedom in Christ.
Paul is calling women to reverence, graciousness, and an attitude which does not call attention to ones self.
Here is some important things to remember on this topic:
God created both man and woman in His image. He offers the same Holy Spirit to both men and women at salvation. The same spiritual gifts are available to both men and women for service.
Jesus was completely radical in how he elevated women in his day. He ignored cultural barriers and invited women to be part of his ministry. Throughout the Bible we found God using women as leaders, prophets and teachers to further his kingdom.
He did, however, choose only men to be his disciples/apostles.
If you search both the Old and New Testaments for every reference to any kind of speaking ministry or leadership position carried out by women, you will come up with nearly 100 references.
“This is all the more remarkable in view of the fact that there are but two or three references which seem to be against women’s audible ministry. Yet these few references have been made the basis for muzzling women in spite of the fact that the main thrust of Scripture is against such silencing.”
“We need to acknowledge once again the difficulties associated with any scriptural study of the role of women in the New Testament church. It is a complex subject with great scholarship and godliness on both sides of the issue, and all who undertake to draw conclusions and set policy with regard to it must, in our view, do so with humility and openness to continued learning. This indeed is our commitment—never to conclude our perusal of God’s word on this subject as if we have determined God’s mind on the matter definitively for all times and peoples. Rather, we will continue to study God’s word and seek to be led by His Spirit in this and all other matters, praying always for the courage and integrity to implement whatever He shows us through that process.”
Conclusion:
I’ve presented two sides to the discussion in the last two Sunday’s, so you have to factor in what I said last week with today.
What I’m asking you to do (as you should do with every sermon you hear) is to search the scriptures, commentaries, books written etc. and see what God is telling you.
I personally am leaning towards women using their full giftedness in the church, under the blessing, guidance and authority of the men elders.
Tuesday, May 27, 2008
Women's roles in the church
On Sunday I preached the first half of a two week sermon series on women's roles in the church. I will post the sermon notes here and would love to hear your thoughts. My basic thesis for this series is that while it seems to be evident that God has relegated the roles of elder to men, there is room for gifted women to preach and teach in the church, under the authority and blessing of the men who are leaders in the church.
The Pastoral Epistles 1 Timothy 2:9-15
The role of women in the church (A two part series)
Intro… Who are these well know women Bible teachers?
Recent Beth Moore Conference…a great teacher who acknowledged that she was “under” the men there…
When we think of women teaching in the church, we need to remember that the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible are given to all Christians.
Does God only give the gifts of teaching and preaching to men? Obviously not, (Beth Moore etc.)
So the question is, how does a woman use those gifts in line with what the Bible teaches?
There are three classic “problem” passages on this topic, I Corinthians 11:3-12, I Corinthians 14:32-36 and I Timothy 2:8-11.
When reading these passages, it’s good to keep in mind:
The accounts of creation and the fall (Genesis 1-3) reveal a fundamental equality between men and women (as far as their standing before God and need for forgiveness.)
Women exercised significant ministry roles of teaching and leading with God’s blessing in both Old and New Testaments.
Though the role of women was historically limited, the progress of revelation indicates an ethic in progress leading to full freedom for women to exercise their giftedness in the local church.
Key New Testament passages restricting women’s roles were culturally and historically specific, not universal principles for all time and places.
Though women are free to use all of their giftedness in teaching and leading in the church, the role of elder is biblically relegated to men and women come under that leadership of the men in the church.
(Today we’ll look at 1 Timothy 2:9-15. Next wk. the 1 Cor. Passages.)
Text: 1 Timothy 2:9-15
As usual, my sermon notes will be available both on our weekly email and the church website.
I also encourage you to look at: (and I will be quoting from)
http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/pdf/special_sections/women_ministry/women_ministry_IBC.pdf
Isn’t it interesting that we tend to ignore or skip over the other verses and hone in on v. 12?
v. 8 What about men lifting up holy hands? (I talked about that last week, and still 99% of men in church today don’t do this!)
v. 9 What is the definition of a woman dressing modestly, in our culture or others, especially tribal cultures?
What if a woman comes to church with an “elaborate” hairstyle like braids? Who decides what an elaborate hairstyle is? Gold or pearl jewelry?
Who defines what “expensive clothes” are?
Why do we allow such “hideous” behavior from women in church today?
Because in our culture, these things do not speak of impropriety. Obviously in Ephesus they did. We allow the culture to impact our interpretation. We do so with the intent of understanding Paul’s true meaning.
In light of that, v. 9-10 don’t need to be that hard to understand or interpret.
It’s always a good idea for women to dress modestly and decently.
A woman’s beauty should come from within, good deeds, things that are “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
But then it gets a little more tricky and specific, v. 11-12
When interpreting these passages, it is important that we follow settled hermeneutical principles:
We must always consider the context. (What was going on at the time that would affect the writing?)
We must look behind local situations to find universal, timeless principles.
(Lev. 19:27-28, “don’t trim the edges of your beards or sideburns…or get
tattoo’s”…not relevant, but the principle still applies, that is, don’t identify
yourself with the pagan culture.)
We must realize that Paul sometimes accommodated the culture he was trying to reach in order not to be a stumbling block to their salvation. For example, Paul instructed Timothy to be circumcised in I Corinthians 9:19-22. This was unnecessary but prudent to reach the people for Christ.
We must always interpret unclear passages in light of clear passages. (And interpret scripture in light of scripture.)
So, when we look at this passage in 1 Timothy, let’s consider the context. What was going on at the time that would cause Paul to write this?
Ephesus was the capital of the Roman province of Asia and was the greatest
commercial center in Western Asia Minor. In this rich, cosmopolitan city, Greek and Asian cultures
were inextricably mixed. Under the Roman emperors it became the local center for the imperial cult--but far more important to the life of the city was the temple of Artemis. It was the largest structure in the Hellenistic world and one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. This temple and its cult affected every aspect of the society and was the focus of fierce civic pride. For a whole month each year the city stopped work and devoted itself to the Artemis cult. (Acts 19:23-41)
The goddess herself was depicted with many breasts, a symbol of fertility. Her worship was overseen
by eunuch priests. Under them were male and female priests who were attended by thousands of
young women. The church Timothy was pastoring was in the shadow of this great temple and was
certainly affected by its cultic worship in which women and eunuchs played the major role.
Remember, back in chapter 1, vs. 3-4…
Over and over in the letter Paul exhorts Timothy to focus on sound doctrine and beware of false teaching. (1:19,20; 4:1-3, 11-16; 5:20; 6:3-5, 20,21)
Timothy’s major problem was unqualified teachers. If men were teaching in error, we can surely suspect that women reared in Artemis worship would also be causing problems. Their lack of scriptural education was making the problem worse.
In vs. 11 Paul wants these women to learn properly…and “unlearn” the corruption from the temple of Artemis.
“In quietness and full submission” is the sign of any good student.
Our Bible time at home…constantly helping them learn in quietness
“Not to teach” most likely refers to false teaching in the church but there is no indication that this is referring to a formal pulpit situation.
Some have taken this statement out of context and flatly denied women the freedom to teach men.
Such an interpretation forgets that there is a difference between teaching “over” a man and teaching “with, to, or under the authority” of a man, and that if women can never teach men than we have some major contradictions in the Scriptures (and in the home where wives teach, correct, and challenge their children and their husbands).
It would be ridiculous to say that Kelley has never taught me anything or pointed out something I needed to see. She is my “helpmate” right from Gen. 2:18
In the church at Corinth women both prayed and prophesied (proclaimed) the Word of God. (1 Cor. 11:5) It was not a question of whether they should be free to teach men, but how, and under what circumstances.
Remember, Christians in Ephesus met in small house churches and false
teaching spread easily in these settings.
It is also important to note that the verb tense in verse 12 is the present tense.
The phrase is better translated, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach...” They needed to learn before they could teach.
v. 12 “Not to have authority over a man”
The word Paul uses for authority in this verse is authentein. This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and is even uncommon in Greek literature.
Paul does not employ the usual Greek word for authority, “exousia”, which is common in the New Testament when referring to authority in the home and church. Instead he chooses a negative word meaning “to dictate or domineer.”
In light of the Greek words chosen, verse 12 is better interpreted, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach in a manner of domineering men”
“Paul does not mean absolute silence, but the kind of teaching in which a woman disregards male leadership which is evident for the home and church throughout Scripture.”
v. 13-15 Adam, Eve, salvation
God made Adam first, and like the women in Ephesus, Eve lacked instruction. They were both were deceived and sinned. God had told Adam first (Gen. 2:15-17), he knew better also.
“She heard what God told Adam concerning the forbidden tree secondhand, and that made her more easily deceived. The women at Ephesus were also lagging behind the men in education. They needed time to learn, and Paul commanded them to learn. Until they did, they also were easily deceived. Eve is an excellent illustration of the Ephesian women who took the initiative and asserted their independence with disastrous results.”
If you’ve spent any time studying the Bible you know that Paul is not talking about, salvation in the sense of sin, repentance, forgiveness, Christ’s death on the cross etc.
If he was, then what about women who are single, or married and don’t have kids?
Most likely means either: Saved through the birth of a child, Jesus. Or that a woman’s greatest achievement is found in her devotion to her divinely ordained role: to help her husband, to bear children, and to follow a faithful life, “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
Or, women will be “saved” from the ungodliness Paul is attempting to curb if they return to the “wholesome normalcy of a Christian marriage relationship, within which quietness and submission replace the premature grasp for a role of authority in the church.”
Even that one is questionable though, because not all women get married and can still live lives fully devoted to God.
Conclusion:
Now you know why this is called one of the “problem passages.”
It’s not easy to read, understand or interpret.
I’ll say more about this next week when I conclude this two week series, but I am not pretending to have all the answers here.
This comes from years of study on my part…
Seminary 1992… Book: ”Why not women?” and most recently the document from IBC, from conservative DTS…
The Pastoral Epistles 1 Timothy 2:9-15
The role of women in the church (A two part series)
Intro… Who are these well know women Bible teachers?
Recent Beth Moore Conference…a great teacher who acknowledged that she was “under” the men there…
When we think of women teaching in the church, we need to remember that the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible are given to all Christians.
Does God only give the gifts of teaching and preaching to men? Obviously not, (Beth Moore etc.)
So the question is, how does a woman use those gifts in line with what the Bible teaches?
There are three classic “problem” passages on this topic, I Corinthians 11:3-12, I Corinthians 14:32-36 and I Timothy 2:8-11.
When reading these passages, it’s good to keep in mind:
The accounts of creation and the fall (Genesis 1-3) reveal a fundamental equality between men and women (as far as their standing before God and need for forgiveness.)
Women exercised significant ministry roles of teaching and leading with God’s blessing in both Old and New Testaments.
Though the role of women was historically limited, the progress of revelation indicates an ethic in progress leading to full freedom for women to exercise their giftedness in the local church.
Key New Testament passages restricting women’s roles were culturally and historically specific, not universal principles for all time and places.
Though women are free to use all of their giftedness in teaching and leading in the church, the role of elder is biblically relegated to men and women come under that leadership of the men in the church.
(Today we’ll look at 1 Timothy 2:9-15. Next wk. the 1 Cor. Passages.)
Text: 1 Timothy 2:9-15
As usual, my sermon notes will be available both on our weekly email and the church website.
I also encourage you to look at: (and I will be quoting from)
http://www.irvingbible.org/fileadmin/pdf/special_sections/women_ministry/women_ministry_IBC.pdf
Isn’t it interesting that we tend to ignore or skip over the other verses and hone in on v. 12?
v. 8 What about men lifting up holy hands? (I talked about that last week, and still 99% of men in church today don’t do this!)
v. 9 What is the definition of a woman dressing modestly, in our culture or others, especially tribal cultures?
What if a woman comes to church with an “elaborate” hairstyle like braids? Who decides what an elaborate hairstyle is? Gold or pearl jewelry?
Who defines what “expensive clothes” are?
Why do we allow such “hideous” behavior from women in church today?
Because in our culture, these things do not speak of impropriety. Obviously in Ephesus they did. We allow the culture to impact our interpretation. We do so with the intent of understanding Paul’s true meaning.
In light of that, v. 9-10 don’t need to be that hard to understand or interpret.
It’s always a good idea for women to dress modestly and decently.
A woman’s beauty should come from within, good deeds, things that are “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
But then it gets a little more tricky and specific, v. 11-12
When interpreting these passages, it is important that we follow settled hermeneutical principles:
We must always consider the context. (What was going on at the time that would affect the writing?)
We must look behind local situations to find universal, timeless principles.
(Lev. 19:27-28, “don’t trim the edges of your beards or sideburns…or get
tattoo’s”…not relevant, but the principle still applies, that is, don’t identify
yourself with the pagan culture.)
We must realize that Paul sometimes accommodated the culture he was trying to reach in order not to be a stumbling block to their salvation. For example, Paul instructed Timothy to be circumcised in I Corinthians 9:19-22. This was unnecessary but prudent to reach the people for Christ.
We must always interpret unclear passages in light of clear passages. (And interpret scripture in light of scripture.)
So, when we look at this passage in 1 Timothy, let’s consider the context. What was going on at the time that would cause Paul to write this?
Ephesus was the capital of the Roman province of Asia and was the greatest
commercial center in Western Asia Minor. In this rich, cosmopolitan city, Greek and Asian cultures
were inextricably mixed. Under the Roman emperors it became the local center for the imperial cult--but far more important to the life of the city was the temple of Artemis. It was the largest structure in the Hellenistic world and one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. This temple and its cult affected every aspect of the society and was the focus of fierce civic pride. For a whole month each year the city stopped work and devoted itself to the Artemis cult. (Acts 19:23-41)
The goddess herself was depicted with many breasts, a symbol of fertility. Her worship was overseen
by eunuch priests. Under them were male and female priests who were attended by thousands of
young women. The church Timothy was pastoring was in the shadow of this great temple and was
certainly affected by its cultic worship in which women and eunuchs played the major role.
Remember, back in chapter 1, vs. 3-4…
Over and over in the letter Paul exhorts Timothy to focus on sound doctrine and beware of false teaching. (1:19,20; 4:1-3, 11-16; 5:20; 6:3-5, 20,21)
Timothy’s major problem was unqualified teachers. If men were teaching in error, we can surely suspect that women reared in Artemis worship would also be causing problems. Their lack of scriptural education was making the problem worse.
In vs. 11 Paul wants these women to learn properly…and “unlearn” the corruption from the temple of Artemis.
“In quietness and full submission” is the sign of any good student.
Our Bible time at home…constantly helping them learn in quietness
“Not to teach” most likely refers to false teaching in the church but there is no indication that this is referring to a formal pulpit situation.
Some have taken this statement out of context and flatly denied women the freedom to teach men.
Such an interpretation forgets that there is a difference between teaching “over” a man and teaching “with, to, or under the authority” of a man, and that if women can never teach men than we have some major contradictions in the Scriptures (and in the home where wives teach, correct, and challenge their children and their husbands).
It would be ridiculous to say that Kelley has never taught me anything or pointed out something I needed to see. She is my “helpmate” right from Gen. 2:18
In the church at Corinth women both prayed and prophesied (proclaimed) the Word of God. (1 Cor. 11:5) It was not a question of whether they should be free to teach men, but how, and under what circumstances.
Remember, Christians in Ephesus met in small house churches and false
teaching spread easily in these settings.
It is also important to note that the verb tense in verse 12 is the present tense.
The phrase is better translated, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach...” They needed to learn before they could teach.
v. 12 “Not to have authority over a man”
The word Paul uses for authority in this verse is authentein. This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and is even uncommon in Greek literature.
Paul does not employ the usual Greek word for authority, “exousia”, which is common in the New Testament when referring to authority in the home and church. Instead he chooses a negative word meaning “to dictate or domineer.”
In light of the Greek words chosen, verse 12 is better interpreted, “I am presently permitting no woman to teach in a manner of domineering men”
“Paul does not mean absolute silence, but the kind of teaching in which a woman disregards male leadership which is evident for the home and church throughout Scripture.”
v. 13-15 Adam, Eve, salvation
God made Adam first, and like the women in Ephesus, Eve lacked instruction. They were both were deceived and sinned. God had told Adam first (Gen. 2:15-17), he knew better also.
“She heard what God told Adam concerning the forbidden tree secondhand, and that made her more easily deceived. The women at Ephesus were also lagging behind the men in education. They needed time to learn, and Paul commanded them to learn. Until they did, they also were easily deceived. Eve is an excellent illustration of the Ephesian women who took the initiative and asserted their independence with disastrous results.”
If you’ve spent any time studying the Bible you know that Paul is not talking about, salvation in the sense of sin, repentance, forgiveness, Christ’s death on the cross etc.
If he was, then what about women who are single, or married and don’t have kids?
Most likely means either: Saved through the birth of a child, Jesus. Or that a woman’s greatest achievement is found in her devotion to her divinely ordained role: to help her husband, to bear children, and to follow a faithful life, “appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
Or, women will be “saved” from the ungodliness Paul is attempting to curb if they return to the “wholesome normalcy of a Christian marriage relationship, within which quietness and submission replace the premature grasp for a role of authority in the church.”
Even that one is questionable though, because not all women get married and can still live lives fully devoted to God.
Conclusion:
Now you know why this is called one of the “problem passages.”
It’s not easy to read, understand or interpret.
I’ll say more about this next week when I conclude this two week series, but I am not pretending to have all the answers here.
This comes from years of study on my part…
Seminary 1992… Book: ”Why not women?” and most recently the document from IBC, from conservative DTS…
Friday, May 23, 2008
A boys life
For all you parents out there, especially you guys with little ones, these are the events of life. Somehow, Elijah has managed to be the King of injuries out of the 5 kids in our house. Last Summer he ended up with 7 stitches in the chin. Two weeks ago he sliced open his thumb and almost required stitches and then a couple of days ago he flew off the front of a skateboard (with a little unwanted help from a brother) and popped his head open requiring 7 stitches.
The last photo is of Micah who insisted on wearing a band aid in the same place as Elijah, even though he had no injury.
The worst thing about getting stitches? Waiting 5 hours in the Emergency room!
(If you are really into gory details, you can click on the photo's for a close up of the cuts.)
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